The Skills Every Slow Fashion Entrepreneur Should Have to Sustain Their Business
CFC Member Spotlight: Dani Des Roches of Picnicwear
Author and interviewer: Stella Hertantyo
Dani Des Roches is the founder of the slow fashion brand, Picnicwear. Picnicwear’s creations are most recognizable by their groovy 60s/70s aesthetic, bold and playful use of color, and most notably their use of vintage towels as the primary material.
Picnicwear launched onto the scene during peak pandemic lockdown. Before this Dani had been a sweater designer for household name brands — such as Urban Outfitters and Express — for almost a decade.
Alongside Picnicwear, Dani also consults and runs her own B2B design studio called Kismet Concept Studio.
I interviewed Dani in the Conscious Fashion Collective Membership as part of our Member Spotlight interview series. Below are some of the highlights from the conversation about:
Pivoting from fast fashion to slow fashion,
Navigating sourcing for her upcycled brand,
The benefits (or necessity) of diversifying income streams as an entrepreneur
What led you to work at the intersection of fashion and sustainability?
I was born and raised in Vancouver, Canada. My parents were both entrepreneurs. Before I was born my mom had started an upcycling business. My dad owned a thrift shop in Vancouver. When my mom met him, she was starting to source and repurpose vintage garments. She was putting pintucks on the shoulders of vintage shirts and selling them on a rack in my dad’s thrift shop.
My mom’s upcycled designs gained popularity and eventually, they opened their first retail store. The store started selling vintage and upcycled clothing, but later grew into a vertical retailer for women’s clothing. They had nine boutique stores at their peak.
They were selling other brands but also producing their own clothing that was all locally manufactured in Vancouver. My mom likes to remind me that my first factory visit was at three weeks old — and she was scolded by a factory worker for bringing her baby to a factory.
So I grew up in the fashion scene and witnessed my parents running businesses. I was extremely fortunate to be able to attend the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York when I graduated from high school.
I chose to specialize in knitwear, because I was enchanted by the idea that you could create the fabric while simultaneously creating the silhouette and design — the possibilities of knitwear were exciting to me.
When I graduated in 2010, it was difficult to find a job. At the time, I was interning at Opening Ceremony which was my dream job. This internship exposed me to the realities of working as a designer and how little people got paid. I was hoping to get hired by them, but instead I got hired by Urban Outfitters in Philadelphia.
My time at Urban Outfitters was exciting. I learned so much and traveled overseas to visit their factories in Asia. The designer I was reporting to quit, so — at the age of 22 — I was the only sweater designer on the team.
Ultimately I wanted to go back to New York. I started working at a private label company — that was not a good fit. That’s when I got the job at Express and I stayed there until 2018. In 2018 I got married and got my green card, so I no longer had to be attached to a company for sponsorship.
All of a sudden a weight lifted off my shoulders and I allowed myself to consider other options beyond fast fashion. Throughout my career I started to realize the role I was playing in the fast fashion industry. So getting my green card was a great opportunity for me to go out on my own, start freelancing with other brands, and ruminate about how to start my brand.
I decided to call the brand Picnicwear, and I had a logo designed, but that was pretty much it. Then when the pandemic hit all of my freelance work dried up. At that point I decided to put all of my time and energy into Picnicwear, and that was almost four years ago.
Having your own upcycled brand is not the most lucrative business, so I’ve also been doing contract work, which I love.
How have your measures of success changed from being a designer in the fast fashion world to being a slow fashion designer?
To be honest I feel like I’m hustling way more now than I was when I was working in the fast fashion industry. When I had a 9-to-5 job, I checked in, checked out, and had good boundaries. These boundaries meant that I was good at not working after the end of the work day for the most part.
Now those boundaries no longer exist. I’m always working on something. Being an entrepreneur is a world of its own — you never switch off, you never go on vacation without work somehow getting involved.
In terms of measures of success: because being an entrepreneur is such a financial grind to make ends meet, I can’t help but measure my success by how many sales I make. That’s a hard pill to swallow, because I went from having a consistent paycheck to my income being contingent on people buying my garments.
Something I’ve been reckoning with this year is how uncomfortable it makes me to constantly be trying to get people to buy my creations. I’m simultaneously telling people to shop their closet and buy less, while also trying to convince people to buy an item from me so that I can pay rent. It’s so hard.
The Conscious Style Podcast interview that you did with Mahdiyyah Muhammad struck a chord with me, because she spoke about how we can broaden our identities from “consumers” to “contributors”. Now I’m trying to figure out how I can contribute to the slow fashion movement in other ways beyond making and selling garments. And how I can do this while still financially sustaining myself.
Throughout the years of running Picnicwear, I’ve always been vocal and love helping young entrepreneurs. But I can’t pour from an empty cup. So I’m trying to figure out the balance, because I’d love to measure my success by something other than how much people buy from me.
How do you navigate scaling your business while working with vintage fabrics that are not in constant supply?
I was determined to figure out how to marry my experience working with retail production models and my love of vintage materials. I wanted to hone in on vintage towels once I discovered that I could make items from towels.
I felt that working with towels would be the common thread across my designs and this would generate trust with the customer, because I’m sticking to one type of material.
But not all towels are created equally — a specific weight of towel will work for some of my designs, but not others. It’s been a learning curve!
You’d be surprised by how constant the supply of towels is. In the beginning, I was set on only using vintage 60s/70s “sculpted” towels. Then I noticed a huge gravitation towards using that material and they became expensive.
That’s when I asked myself, “Is this losing the point of why I’m doing what I’m doing?” If towels are such a sought-after material, then I’m not doing much by diverting them from landfill — that was a struggle for me. That’s when I decided to broaden my sights beyond the “sculpted” towels and started using towels that aren’t as beautiful on their own. Now I source all kinds of different towels.
What I always recommend to other aspiring upcyclers is that they go to their local thrift store, explore what they have the most stock of and create from there. For example I noticed that in my thrift store there was a lot of good quality vintage denim. I started appliquéing those denims with remnants of towels and this combination turned into something beautiful!
Through Picnicwear, how have you pushed back at the commonly held belief that statement garments are synonymous with trends?
I’ve always struggled with the idea that slow fashion has to fit a certain aesthetic. Back when I was creating my prom dress in high school I was inspired by Gwen Stefani and I designed a dress using only plaid materials. My mom convinced me out of it because she said I’d look back at the pictures and regret it.
So I went with a design that was a bit more classic. Looking back I wish I’d stuck to my wild idea. Maybe I’d have looked back and thought I looked ridiculous — but more power to me!
I think that was a good learning experience about my personal style. Only you can determine if you like a garment because it’s a trend, or because it speaks to your heart.
It takes a while to figure out your personal style, but I have garments that I bought 10 years ago that are some of my favorite items in my closet. That’s why I’ve always loved vintage too, because it transcends time.
I’ve never considered making “basics” at Picnicwear, because I barely own basics other than a few t-shirts. When I’m shopping for myself, I’m looking for that guttural feeling that makes me feel excited. When I get that feeling I’m confident that I’ll wear that garment for years.
I buy garments that I have an emotional reaction to — and that’s what I try to create with Picnicwear too.
What are the top skills — that aren’t directly fashion-related — that you think a slow fashion business owner needs?
The most challenging skill is learning the financial aspects of running a business, which we talked about when you wrote the article on how slow fashion brands can balance affordability and fair pricing. You need to have an understanding of how to price your products.
You also need to be thoughtful and clear about your books. QuickBooks will be your best friend. You should make sure you have a business bank account. This makes everything so much easier, because I know that anything I pay for for my business — from materials to paying contractors — goes into my business account. That business account is linked to my QuickBooks, so I don’t have to worry about keeping receipts in the same way as if I only had a personal account.
If you want to register your business, you can use SCORE to get connected with a business advisor who will guide you through the process.
I’m also part of a network called Start Small Think Big. They helped me through many learning curves when it came to bookkeeping, marketing, and website management.
I’d recommend researching what resources are available online — many of them are free.
What is the benefit of having both a business-to-business and business-to-consumer offering as a slow fashion business owner?
For me it’s not just a benefit but a necessity. Sales from my slow business are very slow right now. This is also the case for every other small business owner I’ve spoken to. There are many different reasons for this, but the fact of the matter is that’s life. Business is always going to ebb and flow.
When the pandemic hit, my business was on fire. I put all of my energy into it and didn’t pursue freelance work anymore. But ever since the pandemic, there’s been a steady dip.
During the pandemic, there was also a saturation of people wanting to start their own businesses, which diluted the market. I wish we lived in a world where we could have thousands of small businesses, instead of a few big players who run the show and where the majority of people are spending their money. But we’re not in that world yet.
That’s why if you are starting a small business, I think it’s essential to not be too reliant on it for financial stability — this sucks the joy out of it.
I get a bit worried when people tell me, “I want to quit my job and start this business.” Slow your role and take it easy, because it’s hard to make a small business financially viable. So it’s useful to have another stream of income to pay your bills until you feel fully confident in your business.
That’s why I need to have my consulting business. It requires a lot of reaching out to find new clients to work with who understand the value of my skills. And a lot of people ask me, “Don’t you have your own brand?” But just because I have my brand doesn’t mean I won’t put my heart and soul into consulting for other brands too.
When it comes to pitching yourself, you often have to take a leap of faith and try unexpected pathways. For example I’m consulting with a company right now and I’m helping them with organizing the structure of how they work with their clients. This is never something I thought I’d do, but I realized I was in the perfect position to do this work because I’ve worked with big brands and now I run a small brand.
From my work experiences, I have all these skills that I didn’t realize I had — and aren’t on my resume — until I sat down and thought about how I could help them with this. I reached out to them because I noticed the need for better organization.
You have to learn how to pitch yourself and take a leap of faith when there’s a gap that you think should be filled. And if you send out 50 emails without getting any responses — that’s normal. You have to keep trying.
What is one thing you wish you had known before starting your brand?
Think outside of the box! Here’s an analogy: I once went backpacking in Southeast Asia and by the time I got to Vietnam, I realized that everything I’d been doing on the trip had been based on advice and guidance from others. Then I stopped and realized that I didn’t want to be doing the same things as all the other Westerners — I wanted to travel amongst other people and figure things out differently.
I wanted to take a train from the north of Vietnam to the south. Everyone I spoke to told me I should take the bus instead. But I got my train ticket and it was an amazing experience. My trip through Vietnam was the best ever, because instead of listening to others, I went with what was the best fit for me.
I use this analogy because the same applies to my business. It took me a while to realize that I was relying on a lot of the systems that I’d learned from my career to guide the way I worked.
For example, I was convinced that I needed to get to a place where I could work with domestic factories. I did do this and I’ve had some great experiences with it. But I’ve also figured out an entire cottage industry and worked with people who are sewing in their homes across the country. Some of my favorite production experiences have been through working in this cottage industry.
As the expression goes, you have to learn the rules before you break them. It’s good to know how things are done. But also allow yourself to tailor-make your processes.
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